VIDEO REPORT: Protest at missile maker Raytheon's Bristol offices this morning

by TG Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:07

Bristol Raytheon protest 16th October 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXiakxmR_4s

Raytheon protest banner

by nickleberry Thu Oct 16, 2008 13:33

Raytheon's presence has long been a blight on Bristol. Good on you for highlighting their presence - I'd have joined you if I'd known it was happening! Please keep us posted on any further actions that you have planned.

Best wishes, and WELL DONE!

by Brismash Thu Oct 16, 2008 16:21

Across the country in Brighton yesterday the EDO/ITT Arms factory was shut down for the day.

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/10/410912.html

Multiple actions against Raytheon, BAE systems, EDO/ITT are giving them the message that the manufacture of war technology, that kills many, will not go unnoticed or tolerated.

STOP UK GOVT SUBSIDIES TO THE ARMS TRADE

by smashy Thu Oct 16, 2008 20:16

nice one guys. probably the most entertaining action film you'll ever see!

by Boyd Fri Oct 17, 2008 13:22

Good work! Nice to see a quality moonie at the end of it as well - "the oldest form of political rebellion" as a mate would say!

:-)

by Parky Fri Oct 17, 2008 19:52

I have been inspired by your action.

I propose a monthly morning cycle tour of the major arms manufacturers in Bristol.

1) Raytheon Systems Limited
2) Qinetiq Bristol
3) Defence Procurement Agency.
4) BAE Systems Ltd
5) BAE Systems, Land Systems
6 )BAE SYSTEMS Advanced Technology Centre
7) Rolls Royce Patchway/Filton.
8) Britania cafe (for breakfast!)

The ride will take place on the last Friday of the month, from 7:30am until 8:15am so that cyclists can still get to work on time.

More details, route map and sign up here:
http://www.pledgebank.com/ArmsTradeCycle/share

by Mrs. D.Fence. Worker Fri Oct 24, 2008 15:33

Just to thank you all for the entertainment outside our offices this week - we'll miss you all once it get's colder and you stop bothering - it's a shame these protests only come around once a year...

To put your minds at ease; I can assure you that those of us who work in the defence industry have probably given the issues you are raising consiberably more thought that you have - and we have made our moral judgement.

But we appreciate your fervour.

Keep up the good work,

Mrs. D.Fence. Worker

by baitmaster - from a local DEFENCE company Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:04

I agree with your motives, but I think you're going about this all wrong

In the words of the GLC, "guns don't kill people, rappers do". Likewise, bombs don't start wars, politicians do...

For example, why protest against Rolls-Royce? "Because they make engines for military aircraft, of course" I hear you say. But they did that in 1936 (half the the entire allied airpower in WW2), and if they didn't, you'd all be speaking German by now. Oh, and you'd probably have a few less civil liberties too...

Is it wrong to have a defence industry? Is it wrong to have a police force? Can you imagine life without either? Somehow, I suspect it would be a far worse place. A Utopian society has no place for such concepts, however we don't live there, we live on earth and it can be real crappy, so get used to it. Don't believe me? Check the link below...

You want to make a difference? Good, do so, but target your efforts better! You seem to suggest the DPA is an arms manufacturer. Aside from the fact that it no longer exists, and was not a manufacturer, you effectively seem to want to protest against the existence of the MoD. To what end? get rid of the MoD? then what?!

I work in defence, I also made my moral judgement like Mrs DFW above. You don't like whats happening, then protest Parliament or something. Hanging around outside my office won't change the fact that I work on military hardware that, like it or not, is used to defend this country, me and you, against terrorist threats that do exist. If the equipment is later misused then stand up and be counted, tell the world that you think Blair or whoever got it wrong, but it wasn't the plane that made the decision, and that decision didn't make the plane evil or unnecessary

Utopia? Don't make me laugh!

Oh, and being there at 8am is pretty pointless too, I don't start work till 9... I guess I'll see photos of a few people in my car park on here somewhere, although I can't see those changing the world much. I still agree with some of your points though, and the sooner GWB sods off, the better. As mrs DFW suggested, I think you need to think a bit more realistically about how you deal with these issues, because you're currently wasting your time

by Murderous bastard Mon Oct 27, 2008 13:58

"Is it wrong to have a defence industry?"

Yes.

"Is it wrong to have a police force?"

Yes.

"Can you imagine life without either?"

Yes.

"Somehow, I suspect it would be a far worse place. A Utopian society has no place for such concepts, however we don't live there, we live on earth and it can be real crappy,"

And making munitions is the path you have chosen to making the world a better safer place?

"You want to make a difference?"

I already have thanks.

"To what end? get rid of the MoD? then what?!"

Then re localise food production, develop a non-carbon transport infrastructure, re-structure our society, destroy all borders and have long complicated planning meetings about developing bioregional sustainability.

"I work in defence, I also made my moral judgement like Mrs DFW above."

Sorry you made the wrong choice. Try again.

"You don't like whats happening, then protest Parliament or something. "

Been there done that, got the Tshirt. It achieves nothing.

"and that decision didn't make the plane evil or unnecessary"

Warplanes are by deinition evil and unnecessary.

Toodle pip.

by baitmaster Mon Oct 27, 2008 23:50

thanks "murderous bastard", for telling me about the wonderful world that you live in, I just wish I could live there too, it sounds lovely. Sadly, you've missed most of my point, and only managed to prove what Im saying about not thinking things through properly

So you can imagine a life without a police force or a defence industry can you? I bet its lovely, one big long party where everyone is friendly, loves each other, and its all fluffy and nice. Yeah right, until Ian Huntley comes along and rapes your kids that is... Or maybe one of the other lovely elements of our prison system, because they're all just nice people really, right? No police = no crime prevention = all 83,500 current prison population back on the streets - hopefully in your neighbourhood and not mine - theres a reason they have been deemed unfit to stay in decent society, and theres a reason theres a force out there to catch them; murderers, rapists, thieves, Garry Glitter etc. I applaud your ideals, but as I said, the world can be real nasty - just wanting it to be nice doesn't make it so, wake up and smell the coffee

I don't make munitions, you just assumed that. The equipment I work on has been used to prevent attacks on this country in recent weeks, and is vital to the security of just about everyone you and I know. Its never killed anyone, and never will. So what did you do to "make a difference?". Tell me something with some credence to it, and I might take you more seriously

Instead of having an MoD, you'd "re localise food production, develop a non-carbon transport infrastructure, re-structure our society, destroy all borders and have long complicated planning meetings about developing bioregional sustainability". Great, but what do you do when the Russians send another bomber? Have a commitee meeting? Did you read the link?! This shit happens whether we want it or not. Anyone fancy being annexed like Georgia? FYI, Im as green as they come, I cycle to work, grow my own food, and recycle as much as I can. But that won't stop the Red Army marching down my road if they decide they want my carrots...

"Warplanes are by deinition evil and unnecessary". Do you really think thats true?! I notice you forgot to retort about my WW2 comment... Do you think Spifires were unnecessary? The 8th Army? The French Resistance? I bet you're not Jewish, or you might have a different opinion... What about the work our forces did to prevent ethnic cleansing in EG Kosovo? And don't say that without weapons there wouldn't have been a Kosovo, people have been killing each other since the dawn of time, at least we have strenuous regulation in this time, in this country. Yes there's loopholes in it, some which need to be closed, but we're getting better - trust me, ITAR works pretty well

As I said, I'd love to live in your lovely perfect world, sadly the one Im in is full of evil bastards. How we deal with them is what makes us real decent people. The defence industry isn't perfect, but if you want to live in a place where they don't have one, go to Somalia, I hear the pirates are lovely

Just one more question for you. Assuming we do get rid of this industry from the UK, and we rid ourselves of the Police, the Army, Navy, RAF, etc, get rid of all weapons, and leave the front door open to all and sundry, what do we do when, lets just say, oh, the whole of Africa turns up one day carrying a job lot of machetes (you never seen them waving those around on the news? Mugabe, anyone?) and decides they want whats ours? smoke a spliff and chill some more? You can't do that when they chop your hands off...

Its a necessary evil, but the point is, its necessary. You make your choice, I'll make mine. I'm not wrong, I'd prefer world peace, and want probably the same sort of society as you, but Im realistic about the prospects of ever having it. Some people are nasty bastards whether you believe it or not - at least my way, I get a real say in the process, and don't just wear the crappy T-shirt and moan without coming up with a real alternative. "It achieves nothing?" Thats because your alternative is so full of holes, a sieve would fall through it

Don't blame the bomb, it didn't start the war. Man did. Instead of picketing Parliament, try running for it...

by five people Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:04

Good to here some common sense on here from the baitmaster.

by sick and tired of the trolls Tue Oct 28, 2008 13:03

why dont the trolls offer something constructive or positive for once in your sad boring litlle lives?
instead of endlessly slagging off other peoples initiatives why not initiate something yourselves?
where are your ideas for making the world a better place?
if you aint got anything but constant negativity you are just another part of the problem.

by what trolls? Wed Oct 29, 2008 08:42

Trolls throw in controversial and off-subject comments just to wind people up and provoke reaction. All comments on here so far seem to be related to the topic, or previous replies to it, and have managed to stick to facts and not get personal with each other, unlike yours which fails on this straight away

How's this for offering something better: Not blocking the entire north bristol road network, which is already strained to the limit (and thus affecting not only a few defence company employees, but also thousands of students, local workers, and families, not to mention emergency access to Frenchay Hospital), and in the process increasing the carbon output of every vehicle affected in that time, by maybe half an hour, just to put one naive point of view to a few people, who won't be swayed by weak and inaccurate arguments, because they've already given a lot of thought to them and heard it all a thousand times before?

Or how about, by encouraging some protesters on here, to target their efforts better and thus make more of a difference in the long run? And not waste their own energies in the process? And to open their eyes to the bigger picture, helping them find real solutions to real issues?

Is this an open forum for local people to look at and discuss local issues, or not? Or are you saying that people aren't allowed to express a viewpoint that differs from yours? If so, your hypocrisy amazes me

by bob Mon Nov 03, 2008 18:17

As I understand it, your argument is as follows:
1. There have been times and places in history when modern weaponry has been useful and necessary in defence against an oppressor.
2. Therefore making weapons is OK.
3. Blame the decision-makers, not those who make the weapons.

Well, I would agree with point 1, I don't think many people would disagree that weapons can *occasionally* be used to prevent a greater evil. But this is overwhelmingly the exception rather than the rule. 99% of the time they are used by the powerful to defend or extend their own power.

In this context, ie Britain in 2008, (not just a government that murders and oppresses people overseas, but a state that has always done so, one of many governments that behave in this way) making weapons is NOT ok. It would only be OK if you were solely supplying them to groups that needed them to defend themselves against immediate oppression and had no other option but armed defence, but that's patently not the case.

I'm guessing you'd disagree with this, that you see the actions of our government and army as defending 'our' interests. If you look a little closer you'll see it's the interests of the rich and powerful that they are really defending, not those of the ordinary british worker.

Of course the decision-makers are responsible, but defence workers must carry some responsibility too, by playing their part in the system. To use a WW2 analogy (of which pro-militarists are so fond), Hitler and the SS generals were mainly to blame for the Holocaust, but every concentration camp guard and Gestapo agent also has a share of the blame, however minor their role.

In short, just because you weren't the one to make a decision, doesn't exempt you from blame if you helped carry it out when you could have acted differently, if you let it happen when you could have helped disrupt it, etc.

I would argue that the degree to which you are to blame is dependent on the degree to which you had a choice in the matter. The defence worker with debts, a family to support, a mortgage etc bears less responsibility than their colleague who has no dependents to worry about and is freer to change jobs. But even the one with a mortgage and family has some freedom of choice, and is still being complicit in murder.