Second homes anyone?

by Natasha Sat Nov 08, 2008 09:36

What is wrong about squatting is that you are thieving from someone else. The fact that in this case it is a housing association makes you look like you only care for yourselves. So despite the words, well written that they are, the truth is that those actually struggling to pay the rent, mortgage utility bills look upon squatters with contempt.

No amount of self justification however well penned will alter that.

And as someone who has struggled and could well be struggling again in the future I ask that you just think about how others see you. Not your little peer group that is always supportive - but how the people of Bristol actually see you, what they think of you, what THEY would like to do to get you out of a house that is due to be made ready for people on a housing list that you have ripped up.

I liken you lot to those with money who jump the NHS queue for treatment. The analogy is that a person who has waited years for his operation is dismayed to find their place on the operating table has been grabbed by someone who thinks they have more rights than them and because the operating theatre was not being used at that moment, they had the right to jump in and deny those on the list.

The only real emotion that gets any sympathy with me in the above is the fact that you seem genuinely dismayed at the reaction your self serving justification of the unjustifiable has received. To me you are so far out of touch; your reality of what Bristol is all about is not representative of Bristol as a whole, just a very small minority of very selfish people. And what is more, you know that because all the self serving justification re holiday homes etc. is evidence of some serious barrel scrapping in your part.

by Emma Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:22

You are using some very emotive words here, without backing I feel. Squatting is not thieving - that's why we have different laws for a house not being used and taking something that is. I have no problem with people without a roof over thier heads using an empty space to live in.

Also I would question to grand statement, but how the people of Bristol actually see you - The people of Bristol are not one single mass with one point of view. How can a disparate group who's only connection is that we live in the same city, but who will I am sure have their own views politically, culturally and so on, 'see' one view? I don't feel they can.

by coop Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:50

it would benefit discussion and debate enormously if people would desist from claiming to speak for the majority as happens a lot on this site.
your opinions and assumptions are only that, opinions and assumptions, do not presume that the majority are in agreement with you, that would be vanity in the extreme.

by pondering Sat Nov 08, 2008 20:30

I 100% support anyone with bad hair and attitude ( joke) squatting an empty ingnored UNWANTED by any other tenants property if they are HOMELESS and UNABLE to pay legit like everyone else does.

I did support this lot too - just.
Natasha you have crystallised my thoughts and I read many are clearly intentionally homeless and are clearly just tight fist dodgers. And it's housing association for very local people in need ! ! !

They should go.

by Homeboy Sun Nov 09, 2008 23:13

Natasha the only barrel being scrapped is the one in your possession marked ‘illogical’. There is absolutely no comparison between rich bastards jumping the NHS waiting list by paying privately to use the same hospital facilities, and the squatter homeless occupying a run down empty property that will require a small fortune to be spent before it could possibly be let to vulnerable tenants. Where is the logic in evicting some 20-plus squatter homeless single people, who have the resources & time to make do and live in this property, when there are some 7000 other empty properties that could be utilised for those on waiting lists? Evicting the homeless to house the homeless, that’s the logic of the madhouse.

If ‘pondering’ is still ‘Wavering’, try looking at the bigger picture, and you too will see what a crime in the housing sector is. The only thieves in the area are those who hoard resources (properties) with a view to making a profit, those whose greed sees them own unoccupied second & third homes, and those who deliberately leave properties empty & decaying whilst they hope they increase in value.

Despite the current market crash the cost of a home is still many times the average income and out of reach for many people. With 12000 on the council waiting list, and thousands more unable to get on it because they don’t tick the right ‘vulnerable’ and ‘needy’ boxes, what options are left? Well you can rent privately a home from some profiteer, that will be in a variable condition, the cheaper it costs the shittier it will be, and you will have no security of tenure (and no guarantee you wont be kicked out if you have to sign on). Or you can utilise one of Bristol’s many empties.

Most of the people I talk too are deeply troubled by the current housing situation. They are scared the current economic crisis will put their own homes in jeopardy; they are angry that they’ve been tricked into enormous debt in pursuit of the misguided dream of home ownership; they are unable to switch mortgages because banks have changed the rules leaving them stuck on high rates and in negative equity; they are pissed off at the politicians who’ve bailed out their friends in the banks whilst leaving people like us upto our ears in debt; and they know damn well that if shit happens there is no safety net for them any more in the shape of available social housing. Some are beginning to note where houses are left empty, and consider ways of organising amongst themselves to support eachother in these hard times, because there is absolutely no way the politicians, state and housing professionals are going to look after them.

That is my peer group Natasha. Ordinary working people struggling to buy their own homes because they were coerced into doing so by the absolute lack of alternative options. People in their forties with kids and ten or more years left on their mortgage, whose hoped-for housing security is disappearing fast out of the window. People who thought there was no alternative to the Thatcherite (and Labourite) mantra of ‘BUY’, but who are now seriously questioning all the bullshit that has been forced down their throats these last 25 years. Who see the bankers and the rich getting away with it once again whilst ordinary people suffer the consequences, once again. Who look at these squatters and think ‘yeah go on, get stuck in, its time someone took the bastards on.’

As for me I’m a capitalist’s nightmare. I’ve not squatted for 21 years, but I’ve paid off my mortgage with 15 years hard labour. I’ve not been greedy and tried to buy bigger houses with a bigger mortgage to fill with useless consumerist rubbish, oh no. And I don’t care if my house is worth more or less than when I bought it, cos I have no reason to move. I’m one of the lucky few with housing security and part-time work that covers my needs, and leaves me with lots of free time – to take a look at the bigger picture, and join with those who are saying enough is enough. How much longer are you gonna let the banks, bosses and professionals take the piss out of you? Will you remain blinkered and spitting hatred at those even worse off than yourself, or can you think outside the box and make common cause with all those in need?

by Natasha Mon Nov 10, 2008 08:37

You ask:-

"Will you remain blinkered and spitting hatred at those even worse off than yourself, or can you think outside the box and make common cause with all those in need?"

So who resorts to emotive language now? I am not "spitting hatred", I simply ask that those that squat in a place due to be done up by a Housing association give some thought to how the people of Bristol see them. As for thinking outside the box - there is much evidence on here of the squatters and their supporters rolling out tired old clichés - the biggest being that "All property is theft". It isn't. And such thinking is archaic and certainly not "outside the box" I believe in the right to buy. It gives people a sense of achievement to own their own place. That comes across well in your post, seeing as you now own your own place. What I do not understand is you’re not wanting the same for others?

It seems more like don't do as I have done but do as I say. Bit of a credibility gap there to me.

Good thing about the credit crunch is that we should have far lower interest rates and lower house prices. Like you I do not care what the value of my house is. As a place to live that I own and love to live in, it matters not what its cash value is. You could not put a value on the memories wrapped up in my home.

And that is what squatters miss out on and cause others to miss out on that could be living in and buying a stake in their own home. Squatters DO act like those that jump the NHS queue - they do not do it with money - they do it by stealth and a lack of any sense of right and wrong in my book.

Once again, you write nice words, but then so do Government Spin Doctors. The concept you set out is false and the rather desperate self justification of what the squatters do rings very hollow in my ears.

You simply cannot get around the fact that this squat is taking away a house due to be renovated and used for families in need by a Housing Association. Thus the squatters are guilty of the worst sort of queue jumping and the analogy with NHS queue jumpers stands. This analogy is not my own, it came up in the conversation at work and we all said what a good analogy it was and as I feel we are a representative lot, I really do think you should be asking yourselves the question "How does Bristol in general view the actions of the Squatters?"

That is not "spitting hatred" as you try to infer. It is a sensible plea for you and the squatters to look at their actions as others view them.

by Opal Mon Nov 10, 2008 14:52

Natasha, It looks to me as though you are neither reading what Homeboy has written very carefully, nor actually addressing the points that he has raised.

Over on another recent thread about housing Homeboy wrote,

"Choice of housing does not come into it for the vast majority of us, we either rent privately and line the pockets of a profiteer for as long as we rent, or buy and spend 15, 20, 25 or more years lining the pockets of another profiteer, namely the banks/building societys and insurance companies, before we actually ‘own’ the damn place. Buying or renting privately is not a free choice, it is coercion by powerful forces outside of your influence.

Now whether you like it or not, a lot of people do not want to have to buy or rent privately. They would prefer to live in publicly owned social housing and maintain it as a resource for future generations. After all we pay huge amounts in taxes & NI to the government, so why not expect that money be used to create a public resource of housing for those who prefer to live in it as opposed to buying? It’s a much safer way of providing for your kids & future generations than taking the risk of buying, as many mortagees are now finding out."

http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/689178?&condense_c...40911

The point is that we all need choice in housing. We need to be able to choose what suits our own individual or family circumstances. Getting a mortgage is great, if that's what suits you. But council housing suits lots of people, and is what they would choose, if there was enough to go around any more. What is wrong is that successive governments have effectively removed large chunks of council housing stock, leaving less and less for those who need this option.

The Mirror warns us that the queue for council housing could be 5 million long by 2010.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2008/11/09/5mi...1500/

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5...7.ece

As if that wasn't bad enough, the Brown government is now planning to further reduce security in housing. Labour's clumsy social engineering is likely to result in council estates becoming ever more run-down, places of last resort.