Transition Montpelier happened

by Montpelier Resident Thu Jun 11, 2009 06:56

Why aren't you packing it to attract the interest of all classes, not just middle classes?

Dave Sampson

by Pete Thu Jun 11, 2009 08:46

The answer to your question Montpelier Resident is very simple, the Transition organisers are middle class and white.
The Transition movement is by and for white middle class people.
In that context even the worthiest of projects can actually become counter-productive and dangerously divisive.
The whole thing has not been fully thought through.

by Emma Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:53

Why not get involved and help shape the movement in directions you feel. it's much more constructive than just complaining and I bet they would benefit from your insight as well as your energy.

by C Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:05

The reason that it is middle class and white, presumably, is that it was kicked off by middle class white people. It also seems that it's this sort of thing that is attractive to middle class white people. So while it's easy to deride them for it, perhaps it would be better looking for ways in which all these middle class white people can attract people from different social and ethnic backgrounds?

by Naomi Thu Jun 11, 2009 13:17

Maybe they want 'Transition' to be a white and middle-class thingy - Is that so bad?

by Changling Thu Jun 11, 2009 17:03

I did not mean to suggest that the Transition model only appeals to the middle classes.

I do think it is important that it does appeal to them (particularly in places like Montpelier!) Otherwise there will be very few people involved.

I think that Transition Montpelier will make every effort to involve the working class and the Aristocrats too. The issues of peak energy and climate change cut across both national and class boundaries.

by operate! Fri Jun 12, 2009 00:04

I did not mean to suggest that the Transition model only appeals to the middle classes.

I do think it is important that it does appeal to them (particularly in places like Montpelier!) Otherwise there will be very few people involved.

Really? I'd have thought it would be more important to appeal to working class people, seeing as there are more working class people than middle class people.

For all your power and money, the middle class do not have the numbers and therefore cannot effectively institute positive social change by yourselves. And why would you want to? Who wants to live in a world run by and for a well-off elite? Not me, that's for sure.

And after reading this, an article which openly celebrates elitism, how can you still be surprised that most people reject green ideas as being for the well-off? I mean, reading between the lines you're basically saying that anyone who makes less than £30,000 a year cannot be part of the transisiton and might as well die.

by Changling Fri Jun 12, 2009 08:23

Really? I'd have thought it would be more important to appeal to working class people, seeing as there are more working class people than middle class people.

I would say that it is _as_ important, as we are all as important as each other, no more, no less.

"For all your power and money, the middle class do not have the numbers and therefore cannot effectively institute positive social change by yourselves."

No but neither can the working class. We need to work together see.

"And why would you want to? Who wants to live in a world run by and for a well-off elite? Not me, that's for sure."

We would want to because peak oil and climate change are going to change the amount of resources that we have to use. Perceptions of 'well off' are going to change as consumer society dwindles post-peak.

How are you planning to make the middle class poor? Is everyone going to have the same income after your revolution? Or are you just going to ensure that the richer middle class do not use their income to get positions of power and responsibility?

"And after reading this, an article which openly celebrates elitism, how can you still be surprised that most people reject green ideas as being for the well-off?"

I didn't celebrate elitism, I simply observed that when building a grassroots movement it was important to include the 43% of the population who are middle class (more like 60% in Montpelier)

"I mean, reading between the lines you're basically saying that anyone who makes less than £30,000 a year cannot be part of the transisiton and might as well die."

LOL that is not exactly what I said is it! Reading between the lines you said the moon was made of blue cheese and you are going to shoot the middle class.

PS. I earn about a third of £30k a year.

by Divided and thus ruled Fri Jun 12, 2009 09:11

This 'Transition' cult epitomises all that is bad in any man-made social system.
Those at the top of the unnatural hierachy use the middle-classes to keep the working classes under-control and in order.
The essential fact is that the middle-classes cannot percieve that the 'workers' are equal in any way whatsoever.
They certainly do not want to socialise with the lower orders and they especially do not want workers speaking at middle-class 'public' meetings.
Just as the perceive the upper classes and the aristocracy as being something to be looked up to and respected purely because of their 'status' - however it was aquired or stolen.
Thats how the class system operates.
And the middle-class Transition crowd are only doing exactly what they are conditioned to do - play their role in maintaining the unfairness of the social system in which they are very comfortable placed.
Why should they give a shit for people below them in the social scale, when their function in the class system is to keep them in their (lower) place?

Class system - hierachy.

by working class Fri Jun 12, 2009 09:40

As usual we have a miserably low grade batch of comments which forever fail to ask why the working and black classes aren't actively mobilising themselves, while condemning out of hand those people that are trying to mobilise something.

The fact is that the working classes in the UK are mired in the politics and culture of the victim, which paralyses itself, and everything it criticises, while utterly failing to do anything much for itself.

As long as this paralysing politics of forever parading ourselves as victims of the system persists, instead of an alternative to it, the best the working classes will offer is either the bnp or caustic, low grade comments in places like BIM.

The working classes have failed ourelves.

The tedious victim politics of forever blaming the middle classes, as the victims excuse for inactivity, is the reason the middle classes were created. It has been fallen for hook, line, and miserable sinker.

by Aristonot Sat Jun 13, 2009 09:11

Nothing to do with 'victim' culture and you know it.
Everything to do with the middle-classes maintaining the unnnatural and oppressive class system and economic status quo more like .......

by Sam Tue Jun 16, 2009 19:49 trashbat2 at hotmail dot co dot uk

"As usual we have a miserably low grade batch of comments which forever fail to ask why the working and black classes aren't actively mobilising themselves, while condemning out of hand those people that are trying to mobilise something."

At least you're honest about thinking you're in a different class to black people but this is 2009 in Bristol, not 1959 in Mississippi.

by Will Brown Sat Jun 20, 2009 21:05 will485 at btinternet dot com

I'm not clear whether we need a seperate workers organisation by and for working class people to tackle climate change and peak oil OR whether all such efforts are entirely pointless until we've overthrown the existing class system.

The danger with the latter option is that we might still be building the barricades as the last of the rainforest burns.

I'm pleased to read this fierce exchange about class: Bristol is the most class ridden city in a class ridden country. For me what is really needed is a direct challenge to the class rule of the ruling class: marching on the Public Schools would be a good start imho.

In the meantime - anyone who makes an effort to tackle climate change - provided they push for social justice - gets my support.