Boycott Israeli Goods Stall

by Godwin Wed Dec 05, 2012 15:50

And if boycotting jewish businesses doesn't work, we can get them to wear little yellow stars of david.

What have israeli business owners done to the palestinian people, exactly?

by Bristol Palestine Solidarity Campaign Wed Dec 05, 2012 23:01

Palestinian Civil Society Calls for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions against Israel Until it Complies with International Law and Universal Principles of Human Rights 9 July 2005

One year after the historic Advisory Opinion of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) which found Israel’s Wall built on occupied Palestinian territory to be illegal; Israel continues its construction of the colonial Wall with total disregard to the Court’s decision. Thirty eight years into Israel’s occupation of the Palestinian West Bank (including East Jerusalem), Gaza Strip and the Syrian Golan Heights, Israel continues to expand Jewish colonies. It has unilaterally annexed occupied East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights and is now de facto annexing large parts of the West Bank by means of the Wall. Israel is also preparing – in the shadow of its lanned redeployment from the Gaza Strip – to build and expand colonies in the West Bank. Fifty seven years after the state of Israel was built mainly on land ethnically cleansed of its Palestinian owners, a majority of Palestinians are refugees, most of whom are stateless. Moreover, Israel’s entrenched system of racial discrimination against its own Arab-Palestinian citizens remains intact.

In light of Israel’s persistent violations of international law; and

Given that, since 1948, hundreds of UN resolutions have condemned Israel’s colonial and discriminatory policies as illegal and called for immediate, adequate and effective remedies; and

Given that all forms of international intervention and peace-making have until now failed to convince or force Israel to comply with humanitarian law, to respect fundamental human rights and to end its occupation and oppression of the people of Palestine; and

In view of the fact that people of conscience in the international community have historically shouldered the moral responsibility to fight injustice, as exemplified in the struggle to abolish apartheid in South Africa through diverse forms of boycott, divestment and sanctions; and

Inspired by the struggle of South Africans against apartheid and in the spirit of international solidarity, moral consistency and resistance to injustice and oppression;

We, representatives of Palestinian civil society, call upon international civil society organizations and people of conscience all over the world to impose broad boycotts and implement divestment initiatives against Israel similar to those applied to South Africa in the apartheid era. We appeal to you to pressure your respective states to impose embargoes and sanctions against Israel. We also invite conscientious Israelis to support this Call, for the sake of justice and genuine peace.

These non-violent punitive measures should be maintained until Israel meets its obligation to recognize the Palestinian people’s inalienable right to self-determination and fully complies with the precepts of international law by:

1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall
2. Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194.

Endorsed by:

The Palestinian political parties, unions, associations, coalitions and organizations below represent the three integral parts of the people of Palestine: Palestinian refugees, Palestinians under occupation and Palestinian citizens of Israel.

by B'Oiley Parker Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:07

Good job they built a Sainsbury's there isn't it...

by Laughing at your fear Thu Dec 06, 2012 13:21

The incredible lengths that some people attempt to hide their antisemitism never ceases to amaze me. This is no more than a pathetic attack on Jewish owned business's under a pretence of it being an action against Israel. Where are these same campaigns against the oppression in Barhain, the murders in Syria, the rigged elections in Iran, the oppression of women in Saudi Arabia, the desecration of Christian graves in Yemen.

The Middle East is more than Israel.

by ftp Thu Dec 06, 2012 14:30

The US/Israel arranged 'revolution' in Syria is the latest attempt by Washington and Tel Aviv to destabalise a country that has the guts to stand up to them.

The film you see from Syria is not even filmed in the country most of the time, the US Army and Mossad psyops operations are well funded and efficient. The so called bombings are no more than Israeli air strikes designed to build conflict between the peoples of Syria.

The 'news' you see from Fox, CNN and the BBC is not real. There are no independent reports of the claimed attacks by the Syrian government against its own people. Why would the Syrian people want to to rise up against a well respected and loved President like Assad ?

by Paul Foster Thu Dec 06, 2012 15:57

Would one of the Mods please hide this crap from FTP above. Real people are dying in Syria while he writes his conspiracy theory rubbish on the internet.

I thought this site was free of his antisemitic crap. That was what Indy UK existed for these days

by bob Thu Dec 06, 2012 16:45

Most Jews are not Israelis. A lot of Israelis aren't Jewish. The non-Jewish Palestinians are also Semitic so you can hardly call someone campaiging for Palestinian rights anti-semitic.

by Ian Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:19

The reality is the barrier has been the most effective method of preventing terrorist attacks in Israel, between 2000 and July 2003, when the "first continuous segment" of the barrier was built, 73 Palestinian suicide bombings were carried out from the West Bank, killing 293 Israelis and injuring over 1,900. However, from August 2003 and the end of 2006, only 12 attacks were carried out, killing 64 Israelis and wounding 445. It's also worth pointing out that although it is routingly refered to as a 'Wall' the barrier is for 90% a simple fence.

For those people who call for its demolition I would ask what they propose to do to stop the terrorist attacks returning.

by Ollie Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:43

Return all the lands the Zionists have stolen (and are still stealing) from the Palestinians forthwith.

by Greg Fri Dec 07, 2012 14:13

I don't think so sonny. The land that is present day Israel is a combination of land given to them by the British who owned it and that won in wars that Israel didn't start designed to exterminate them.

Next

by Greg Fri Dec 07, 2012 19:47

Palestine was given to the Jews by the 'British who owned it'... and thats a fact cuz I read it on the initnet

by Bristol PSC Sat Dec 08, 2012 09:13

Interesting that Ian can't manage to read any further down the page on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier
as it goes on to say:-

Opponents of the barrier object that the route substantially deviates from the Green Line into the occupied territories captured by Israel in the Six-Day War of 1967. They argue that the barrier is an illegal attempt to annex Palestinian land under the guise of security,[7] violates international law,[8] has the effect of undermining negotiations (by establishing new borders),[9] and severely restricts Palestinians who live nearby, particularly their ability to travel freely within the West Bank and to access work in Israel.[9] In a 2004 advisory opinion resulting from a Palestinian-initiated U.N. resolution, the International Court of Justice considered that "Israel cannot rely on a right of self-defence or on a state of necessity in order to preclude the wrongfulness of the construction of the wall". The Court asserted that "the construction of the wall, and its associated régime, are contrary to international law".[10]

In other words Israel can build any sort of barrier it likes but it should build it on the border, but Israel has never been much good at remembering where it's border is, bad with map reading I suppose?

But probably the real reason is "Ian" is probably a "Hasbara" troll sitting in Tel Aviv or somewhere around the world and remote from Bristol and is paid/encouraged by the Israeli government or army to spread mis-information.

George Orwell was right!

by T Sat Dec 08, 2012 17:58

The fact remains that the Wall / Fence / Barrier has been probably the most effective method for the prevention of terrorism seen in last 30 years.

The never ending discussion about who 'owns' the land frankly stopped being important years ago and some people need to face up to the fact that the Jews are not leaving and neither are the Palestinians. Like Northern Ireland compromise is the only future.

by Gary Sun Dec 09, 2012 08:47

....if I'm being thick but what does this have to do with Sainsburys?

Is it just this particular branch or is the PLC "owned" by Jews?

Genuine query, not "trolling"

by FTP Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:21

Somebody above wrote,

"some people need to face up to the fact that the Jews are not leaving". Well speaking as somebody active in Palestinian politics for several years I do not accept that. The Jews in Palestine are European and it is to Europe they need to return. The UK, the US and others need to cover the costs of that and only then will there be peace in Palestine.

by Jim Mon Dec 10, 2012 09:05

So you don"t accept that Jews should be in Israel and you think they should be "returned to Europe" where according to you they come from. Have you any idea what a tool you sound ?

by Godwin Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:53

"Jews in Palestine are European and it is to Europe they need to return"

Seriously? Do you realise how much like the EDL you sound? I thought people on here were generally against forced deportation?

Swap the nouns in your post to 'Muslims in Britian' and 'Middle East' and it could be straight from the EDL site.

Not to mention that while it might have been true decades ago that the Jews who moved to Palestine were European, these days many if not most will have been born there. What right do you have to say they should pay for a decades old mistake by losing their home?

by FTP Mon Dec 10, 2012 13:13

Typical shouty Zionist response.

The facts do not lie.

All Jews in Israel are European - FACT
The only way to end the conflict in Palestine is for them to leave - FACT
The UK and USA bear the primary financial responsibility for them leaving - FACT
There are no links between the Jewish religion and Palestine with the exception of a very dubious religious book - FACT
The Israelis are carrying out a systematic extermination of the Palestinian people -FACT

How do you respond to FACTS Mr Zionist ?

by Caleb Mon Dec 10, 2012 13:27

It's not simply a decades old mistake is it though? Kicking the Palestinians off their land is not a mistake for a start it's deliberate. It's also happening right now and the Israeli state shows no signs of stopping.

And as for losing homes. Palestinians are losing or rather being evicted from their homes all the time.

by Fact checker Mon Dec 10, 2012 16:35

"The Israelis are carrying out a systematic extermination of the Palestinian people -FACT"

Well they are not doing it very well because the Palestinian population is rising.

by Sweetcheeks Mon Dec 10, 2012 18:37

That's because they are engaged in demographic warfare. Women are reproducing as a patriotic duty. They're beating the relatively wealthy educated westernised secular Israeli women by a long way, of course, but the Haredi are competing very well. Unfortunately that's ironically a disaster for the secular Israeli state because the Ultra-Orthodox neither work nor do armed service.

Crunch point will come in not too distant future. But doubtless the largely anti-Zionist Haredi and the Palestinians could come to a good accommodation if left to it.

Just because a human population increases it doesn't indicate well-being. Deprived, uneducated and oppressed women generally have a lot more children than better off liberated women. It's called the demographic transition.

by Fact checker Mon Dec 10, 2012 22:34

Glad you agree with me..thanks

by Mike (married to an Israeli) Tue Dec 11, 2012 08:27

"Ultra-Orthodox neither work nor do armed service"

Where to start ? Well only about 8% of Israeli Jews can be described as Ultra-Orthodox so even if they, as our poster says "neither work or do armed service" it would make very little difference however the facts are somewhat different. Most UO women and some men join Sherut Leumi, or national service, the majority of men join either religious army units such as the 97th "Netzah Yehuda" Infantry Battalion or undertake the Mandatory Police Service (Shaham) program.

It may also interest people to know that Israel is one of only 24 nations that allow openly gay individuals to serve in the military. Since the early 1990s, sexual identity presents no formal barrier in terms of soldiers' military specialization or eligibility for promotion furethermore Vegan Israelis are provided with special allowances to buy their own food. They are also given artificial leather boots. Both of my wifes brothers are Vegan and said that in in combat situation they always received Vegan food.

Work - As of 2012 it was estimated that 37% of Haredi men and 49% of Haredi women were employed in mainstream work with the rest of the adult population either in the Military or undertaking religious studies that includes teaching, something akin to a Catholic monk, they are supported by their community and receive no state aid.

Anymore 'facts' ?

by FTP Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:56

Weird beard Ultra Othordox activities aside none of that changes the fact these people are Europeans and Russians who should not be there. They need to leave, give Palestine back to the Palestinians and provide compensation for 70 years of oppression and ethnic cleansing. The Jews of the world have a collective responsibility to do this for their support of a country that has carried out the most extreme case of oppression in generations.

by Solomon Wed Dec 12, 2012 07:51

FTP, when you are this deep in the hole it's best to stop digging

by Mike Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:07

'FTP' as I assume from your writing style and views you are the same 'ftp' or 'freethepeeps' who moderates the Indy UK site I have to wonder why you are here at Bristol giving us the benefit of your "knowledge'. Could it be that while this site is growing and vibrant with regular news updates while yours consists of multiple Turkish spam and the deranged ravings of a few 9/11 loonies meaning that your offensive views regading Judaism and Jews are not getting the readers they once were ?

You and your views are not welcome here. Return to the failing Indy site you ruined.

by FTP Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:41

I have the right to post here just the same as you do. That's what open publishing and the Indymedia project is all about. If you don't like what I have to say about the Jewish problem then don't read my posts.

by Shocked Wed Dec 12, 2012 13:24

Would you care to explain what exactly is the "Jewish Problem"

by inspector phil Wed Dec 12, 2012 14:22

Some of these posts aren't sounding like Roy Bard (ftp) to me. I mean, sure, Bard's a grotesque little Jew-hater who split Indymedia to make sure his little sliver of it was safe for antisemitic vomit, and sure Bard went off and cofounded "deliberation" which is proud to be a rancid pool of Jew-hate (blood libel, Holocaust denial, Jews run the world, you name it), and sure Bard can't see what's so terrible about spreading neo-Nazi propaganda about how the gas chambers of Auschwitz are probably Zionist fantasies, and sure his little ganguscule stole the Indymedia UK domain with a pile of excuses nobody outside his little gangusucle accepted, and sure he's the last person standing in the UK who still thinks Atzmon isn't just a self-aggrandizing cunt who hates the Jews for being the Jews, so it's not like I feel all that sorry for the little arsewipe, but I suspect most of these replies are being forged in Bard's name.

But when Indymedia UK readership is down to just one - Bard himself - he will congratulate himself for having destroyed Indymedia in order to save it.

by Maths teacher Wed Dec 12, 2012 15:54

"But when Indymedia UK readership is down to just one - Bard himself "

Not long now.

by FTP Wed Dec 12, 2012 19:35

My involvement with the main UK indymedia site is irrelevant to this thread. This is a tactic seen often with Zionists and their attempts to divert attention from their Holocaust of the Palestinian people, they try to divert the discussion or argument into side streets.

I do not allow this to happen.

The earlier points remain. There will be peace in Palestine only when every last Jew has returned to Europe

by fill in the spector Wed Dec 12, 2012 21:57

Can't be Bard. The real Bard would have launched into a vast soliloquy of bellicose self-pity about how his efforts to keep the world free for the blood libel and other forms of antisemitism are so tragically unappreciated by the zionists who run the Palestine Solidarity Committee and the zionist Ali Abunimah and the zionist Socialist Unity and the zionist Tony Greenstein and the zionist London Indymedia and all the other anti-zionists he call zionists (because, you know, if you're an anti-zionist and you recognize that Gilad Atzmon is a pile of racist offal, you're really a zionist, no matter how anti-zionist you are).

You're not capturing the proper tone of whinging paranoia and his deeply unhinged persecution complex.

Try again, more winge and unhinge.

by FTP Thu Dec 13, 2012 07:27

Shout all you like to divert attention from the issue with your strawman argument but the facts do not change. The Jews and their Zionist controllers should leave Palestine, compensate the Palestinian people and return to Europe from where they came.

Have a nice day.

by Former Indy uk mod Thu Dec 13, 2012 08:41

Although I agree with the poster above that posts from Roy do not have the usual long winded self righteous whinning tone that would be expected their brevity is probably a result of the time he now has. Not content with Indy UK and his own blog and Twitter feed he is also a regular contributor to about twenty other websites and discussion boards all focused on Jews and Israel or as he so delightfully puts it, "the Jewish problem".

For those of us able to see the difference between being critical of Israel and critical of Jews it is very frustrating because supporters of Israel are able to point at the antisemites like Roy in the Palestinian support groups as 'proof' that we are all blackshirt wearing Ernst Zündel types.

by Sweetcheeks Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:18

Hi Mike (married to an Israeli). First of all there's no need to be abusive or call people names. What you say is interesting and it would be useful to have some references.

It is obviously imperative for the Israeli State to mobilise as many people as possible to the military and civilian conflict. Obviously the State will put maximum effort into that and obviously by throwing resources in they will achieve some success in that goal.

You write that "As of 2012 it was estimated that 37% of Haredi men and 49% of Haredi women were employed in mainstream work with the rest of the adult population either in the Military or undertaking religious studies that includes teaching, something akin to a Catholic monk"

This sentence is somewhat obscure to understand.

Is it the case that:

37% of Haredi men
49% of Haredi women

are employed

"EITHER in the Military or undertaking religious studies that includes teaching, something akin to a Catholic monk" ?

Which would be well in line with Dan Ben-David's research at the Taub Center for Social Policy Research in Israel:

"the ultra-Orthodox boys schools, which generally want their students to spend their lives studying Torah instead of working, are not preparing their students for the modern work world."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/unemployment-rates...76868

by Mike (married to an Israeli) Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:01

I haven't insulted anybody, what on earth are you talking about ?

I have no idea of the points you are trying to make. I was trying to make clear that the Ultra Orthodox are somewhat similair to Monks in Catholic countries, a minority who are not a drain on the country as the previous poster was trying to imply.

by Sweetcheeks Thu Dec 13, 2012 16:44

You're confused because you're an idiot

by Mike (married to an Israeli ) Thu Dec 13, 2012 19:08

Whatever dude

by Sweetcheeks Mon Dec 17, 2012 09:42

Former Indy moderator: "For those of us able to see the difference between being critical of Israel and critical of Jews it is very frustrating because supporters of Israel are able to point at the antisemites like Roy in the Palestinian support groups as 'proof' that we are all blackshirt wearing Ernst Zündel types."

You've got it spot on Fim. FTP is such a caricature that you really have to wonder .....

............................................................................................................

Mike (married to an Israeli)"I see the anti-Semites have arrived, time for education by Mike (married to an Israeli) Tue Dec 11, 2012 08:27
"Ultra-Orthodox neither work nor do armed service" Where to start ?"

Er, sorry Mike, but calling me an anti-semite on no evidence whatever is an insult. A very, very nasty insult, a slur if you like. Telling me I need an education is pretty insulting too.

I see you are very keen to avoid the issues I raised though.

1. The Haredi community was very small, but because Haredi couples have many times more children than secular Israelis their population is growing very rapidly. Haredi are nothing like monks, in fact they are the opposite of monks in that everyone is required, yes required, to marry and produce numbers of offspring.

2. Religious study for males is the preferred "work" option over all others. I don't know about you, but religious study is not work as far as i see. It certainly does not put food on the table, pay the bills, or defend the country.

This is what one young Haredi recruit to the new army unit said: "The army is important in Israel. My family are backing me, but a lot of people in my community think it's a very bad thing to do. It's not simple. There's pressure, and you don't want to lose your name because you join the army.

"It wasn't an easy decision for me to make, and it will be harder for me to find a wife. But I hope I'll find someone who won't mind that I spent time in the army."

3. Originally some Jews were actually living in Palestine before the invention of Israel. There were many, many Jews in the Middle East, but since Israel the pressure has grown and goes on growing (from both Israeli and Islamic directions, a pincer movement) to leave their homes and occupy Israel/Palestine.) These Middle Eastern Jews often have far more in common culturally with the Islamic and Christian populations of the Middle East than they do with secular, Westernised Jews. Many Orthodox Jews are anti-Zionist. If you are married to an Israeli you must surely know this fact, and the theological reasoning behind it?

These three issues explain why some (many even) secular Israelis do strongly resent the Ultra-Orthodox and do feel they are a drag on the nation.

FTP is too blinded by his own prejudices to see that the Haredi are potentially the Palestinians best allies and not to be dismissed as "weird beards".

Oh, and lastly, need it be said, the "Sweetcheeks" 16.44 Dec 13 comment about "idiot" was not me but someone deliberately trying to poison the water for their own motives.

by Mike (married to an Israeli) Mon Dec 17, 2012 16:27

Calling somebody an antisemite if they write antisemitic material is not an insult it is a statement of fact. As antisemitism is a product of fear I see education as the 'cure' for that fear. My original statement is therefore unchanged.

--------------------------------------------------------

I have no comment to make on the Indy UK moderator 'FTP' I have seen his many antisemitic posts and comments on the UK site and I think him beyond education. Some people are simply too stupid.

--------------------------------------------------------

Regarding ultra orthodox people of either Judaism or Christianity I don't see the issue. One could argue that Catholic priests are a "drain on the country", I'm sure some people do. However to people of faith (whatever that faith may be) they are not. In Israel the UO contribute to the country either by military service in special units or by other work however even if not a single UO did anything but read the Torah all day it would make very little difference to either the Israeli state or the Israeli Defence Force because the percentage of the population that is UO is tiny.

The last country to abandon compulsary military service in Europe was Belgium (in 1994) they have a population of about the same as Israel (9 million against 7 million) and they had a conscientious objection rate that was nearly 16% at the height of the Cold War when Belgium faced a military threat from the USSR and yet the then head of the Belgian Armed Forces General Maurice Gysemberg said that this posed no threat to the ability of the armed forces to do their job. In Israel the conscientious objection rate is less than 1%.

by Sweetcheeks Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:09

Sorry Mike, it was clearly me that you were referring to as "anti-semitic", not ftp as you are now trying to make out.

You're also failing to adequately address any of the issues I raised. Fair enough, that's your privilege to turn a blind eye.

by Mike (married to an Israeli) Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:38

Ultra Orthodox men serve in the military

If they didn't there are so few of them it would not make a difference to the defence of the country

Got it now ?

by Sweetcheeks Sun Dec 23, 2012 14:36

That was quick 'Mike'.

Do you even read what people write or do you just jump on a few phrases, decide that's not in your ideological phrase-book and then leap to the conclusion that since the Other does not agree with you 100% they must be an "anti-semite"?

I did not mean that there is not a single Ultra Orthodox person in the Israeli military. Of course the pressure to aid the war effort is enormous and the Israeli State has shoe-horned some in but to most Haredim it remains shameful. Don't take my word for it, try reading that quote:

"The army is important in Israel. My family are backing me, but a lot of people in my community think it's a very bad thing to do. It's not simple. There's pressure, and you don't want to lose your name because you join the army.

"It wasn't an easy decision for me to make, and it will be harder for me to find a wife. But I hope I'll find someone who won't mind that I spent time in the army."

............................................................................................................

"a lot of people in my community think it's a very bad thing to do."

"it will be harder for me to find a wife."

............................................................................................................

Jewish people are not some monolithic bloc. Not all Jewish people agree with Zionism or creating a State of Israel.

Many are vehemently opposed to the State of Israel.

Got it now ?

by Mike (married to an Israeli ) Mon Dec 24, 2012 07:24

Sigh

A random perhaps made up quote from one individual does not prove a theory. Facts are what matter in this argument.

The UO community within Israel is very small SO even if none of the ever served in the military it would have no effect on the effectitivnes of the IDF however in reality the majority of them DO serve so the point is irrelevant,

The rest of your rumblings about Zionism and who does are does not support the state of Israel is also irrelevant. It was suggested the UO community is somewho a 'drain' on the country, I have shown they are not.

Do please try to grasp these simple facts.

by Benjamin Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:04

A poster above wrote,

"but to most Haredim it remains shameful."

This is simply untrue and I have no idea where you got it from. Many Haredim serve the Israeli military mostly in dedicated religious units where there is a strict observance of Jewish law. Other countries have similar arrangements. For example the Turkish Army has a unit called Amfibi Deniz Piyade Tugayı which is for deeply religious Muslim soldiers.

The Haredim like most religious people have strict rules about taking life so they often served in units where this is unlikely such as bomb disposal or intelligence analysis. I can assure you that service to Israel is in no way considered "shameful" in fact for all Jews there is an obligation of service to the country in which they live detailed under the laws of 'Mitzvah'.

Do please post follow up questions if I can help further to provide information.

by Sweetcheeks Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:40

Well obviously you will believe what you want to believe.

All is well in the State of Israel, so nothing to see here, move along now!